Friday, October 14, 2005

They must be kidding

From the Citizen...

OTTAWA -- University and college students from across Canada launched a campaign to get Prime Minister Paul Martin to increase funding transfers to provinces by $4 billion for post-secondary education in Ottawa, Thursday. Student federations said Martin made that promise during his election campaign.

The president of Quebec's university student federation, Francois Vincent, said pressure tactics will be carried out to get Martin to keep his promise. He said all campuses are going to do a massive postering campaign, a cross-country petition, mass post card mailing and a campaign to sensitize members of Parliament.

~Even though the students are totally misguided, it doesn't really matter much. Entitlementarian student protests have a lot of steam in the fall, but by May all will be forgotten, only to be taken up with vigour again next fall. Thus the cycle of life continues on university campuses.


Chad Moats said...

Ralph Klein has got it half right with his K-14 plan. All post-secondary education should be public, accessible and free to all qualified students, whether technical, trade or academic studies.

Anonymous said...

I don't remember Ralph Klein saying anything about a K-14 system, I do know that it was his advanced Education Minister who brought it up as an idea to consider. But he definitely wasn't speaking for Ralph Klein or the government.

And since when has all post-secondary education been public? There are some great private institutions in this country, and they benefit all of us through their graduates.

Chad Moats said...

Typical right wing spin take something out of context and complain. I said "should" , check your dictionary.

Shawn said...

Anything given to people "free" by the government will end up a disaster (for examples look at Medicare, on-reserve housing, etc.). Governments cannot make things appear out of thin air, the items have to be paid for by someone.

So let's imagine Paulie Payola implements some wildass neo-Marxist total education package. With the tens or hundreds of billions of dollars it sucks out of the private sector, these graduates will be lucky to find a job because tax rates will gut the business community.

Real human rights are not contingent upon being able to steal something from another person. Free speech for one person does not require another person's ability to speak freely be abrogated. Freedom of religion, creed, etc. similarly does not require outlawing someone else's.

Fictitious New Deal-style rights like free/accessible education and healthcare require a portion of people to pay for a service for others who could not afford it on their own. In the past, these items were often provided by charitable organizations funded by voluntary donations, generally quite effectively.

Chad Moats said...

Sounds like Shawn would like to return to slavery or the stone age. This wild west mentality is outmoded and dying but not as quickly as I would like to see.

David MacLean said...

yeah...that's right. Shawn wants to go back to the stone age. Nice argument. Pick it up Chad. Be useful.

Shawn said...

What a succinct rebuttal. I notice a total failure to address any points raised in my comments. Here are a few questions that might provide clarification:

1) Can you name a entitlement/redistribution plan that actually lowers the incidence of the social/economic problem it purports to solve?

2) Explain how the right to a free service (healthcare, education, etc.) which someone had to pay for is the same as a right to free speech, peaceful assembly, etc.

3) How does freeing people (taxpayers)from the being obliged to provide others (beneficiaries) with items through compulsory taxation rather than voluntary donation equate to slavery? If anything, the current situation mimics actual slavery more so than the reverse.

Such ideas as personal responsibility and initiative may be on the decline, but the very consequences of that will necessitate their resurgence. Simply put, a society composed wholly of victims will not last long.

Chad Moats said...

Research Norway,Sweden,Denmark and Finland. They have some of the highest incomes on the planet and the most comprehensive social programs. With the lowest ratio in income from Top 10% to Bottom 40%. That's how it work ! Reduction in Inequality of Condition leads to less social problems, less crime,etc.It's the halfway means tested programs that are the issue.

Shawn said...

"reduction of inequality of condition leads to less social problems, crime, etc."

Why rob someone when the government is willing to do it for you? Not much of an argument in my opinion.

You cannot spend your way out of social problems. These require people changing the habits/lifestyles that created the problem. Giving a junkie free heroin will not give them much of an incentive to stop shooting up.

As regards the success of the scandinavian welfare factories, time will tell. Remember, socialism only flourishes so long as there are people willing to be sacrificed.

Chad Moats said...

OK, Shawn, you believe what you want to believe but the facts are that countries that concentrate on positive rights have much less in social ills and higher incomes. Now, unless, you make > $200 k per annum, the set up you propose will not better your life, you may stay static if you make enough but chances are unless you sit in the top 20% of income you will see a decrease in your lifestyle. You will also see orphanages, breadlines and soup kitchens doing very brisk business. Chances are you will see civil unrest maybe a riot (didn't we have one of those, once ?) so if that is what you see as a better society , then that is your choice but I choose to learn my lesson from history, not just the last 15 years.

Shawn said...

Wow, when I think of civil unrest, riots, bread lines, and soup kitchens it brings to mind failed socialist utopias. Take your pick of examples. The scary thing is, those are the good aspects!

As a member of the group making less than 200K per year, I know my financial situation would be immensely improved if the biggest bite out of my paycheck got a little smaller (guess what it is?). Enforcing all those "positive rights" costs a lot of money.

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